it's really on medicare especially, it's the ryan policies that obama is running against. and then lastly, i think what ryan and biden are defined by in a lot of ways and for biden, that's partially hit his gaffes. is he going to step in it? is there going to be some memorable sound bite from that debate? and ryan is known as the numbers guy. and the whole obama campaign now against romney and ryan is that the numbers on the republican side don't add up. so i think there's going to be pressure on ryan to explain the numbers or at least the obama folks are going to try and pressure ryan to explain the numbers. so these things usually don't matter. it's the undercard. but this time i think there could be a little more importance. >> i think you're exactly right. biden's actually a very good debater. he was very good during the democratic debates in '08. he beat barack obama every time. he is good in the debates, but boy, he can't afford to have an off night, can he? >> no. >> i mean, you talk about feeding into a narrative. i actually think paul ryan can break even and he'll